Grievance Board

Let me preface this by saying something: This is not an argument on the validity of Saizo's ban itself.

This grievance I am bringing forth is instead an issue with the process that the staff have taken to build up to and subsequently execute a ban on Discord. Now, some may argue that this is far less punishing than a board ban; this statement has some merit. To say that such a ban will not affect a player's ability to adequately RP, however, is false. 

Discord provides an easy platform for plotting, tagging, and chatting with other members and had thusly become an integral part of WoD itself. If the Discord were to suddenly disappear from everyone this minute, could you say in good faith that no processes would be affected? No, Site-PMs and the Shoutbox are not good alternatives to this. They are heavily flawed which was why a Discord was implemented in the first place.

Now, what does this boil down to, then?

To reiterate, the issue here lies within the sub-par public resolution. You can claim that 'private warnings' and 'non percent warnings' are important all you want, but when a warning board is implemented it is expected to get used. And when it gets used, it should actually be a compilation of fair points reinforced by facts and evidence not "Encouraging a friend to troll the Discord" with no proof to back it up.

From a more subjective view: The fact that a player can now get permanently banned from one of the most useful RP tools on the site with no prior public warnings and NO comprehensive list of proof to back it up. Providing one example (a poor one at that, considering in context Thaw also took it as a joke) and making some claims that they violated more rules and instigated a troll is simply frightening. 

Perhaps I am wrong, and you hold a plethora of screenshots and anecdotes from members that will back this decision up. Then, I ask that you post a couple. You don't need to post every single example, but one poor example and some conjecture should not be sufficient. Either way, like I said, this is not arguing for his ban or unban this is my take on how poorly this situation was handled, and I hope to see better communication for punishments that weigh as heavily as this.

While it can be all be true Saizomaru did bad things (I personally have not seen many nor have any evidence), I think we need to see the evidence. You can't accuse somebody of something bad without evidence. Once the Evidence comes out i'll prob post more on this but it really does not look that good. From what you posted at best he gets a slap on the wrist. I hope that it all works out tho. Whether that showing evidence to prove the claim or being cleared. Regardless I think Saizomaru ban with what was shown should be revoked.

I freely admit that I flubbed the Warning rollout in a big way, and for that, I would like to apologize to everyone, including Saizo, and especially to those players who feel alienated by my actions. I was exasperated with the situation and the deterioration of the Discord and didn't organize the decision in a thoughtful manner.

Now, to address some concerns.

No one is at risk of suddenly becoming Discord banned without warning. Saizo was talked to plenty of times, privately. Just because the warnings aren't public does not mean they aren’t warnings. We have no standard procedure in issuing Discord-only disciplinary actions. Saizo is the only established player who has ever (to my knowledge) received a ban.

While the rollout was sloppily relayed, it was correctly applied, and will not be rescinded. A significant amount of the concerns brought to me since my return was over Saizo's behavior on the Discord. We're compiling more proper evidence for the warning. The language of the warning may change, but the decision will remain.

Regarding the shill claim, we have some fairly strong evidence from a player who wishes to remain anonymous indicating collusion, and we are working on getting an anonymized version of the evidence to the rest of you all (pending that player's approval). In the meanwhile, I will share the conversation that led me to believe that Saizo was involved with Shadic, to begin with:

imgur.com/a/XAvJt8v

In closing, I'd like to point out that this isn't a court of law. I don’t have to catch you red-handed to give a warning or a ban. There is no “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard or anything like that. That said, I’m going to do my best to be fair and even-handed while also trying to protect the site.

As explained in Maple's post James, this is not the final warning evidence, this is simply a snippet directly addressing why Maple believed Saizo to be in kahoots with Shadic. We are properly corroborating evidence, some of which requires us to get permission from persons involved to show. Harassment and collusion are both sensitive matters, and the massive community response has obviously given people reasonable concern about stepping forward willingly. Please be patient.

Additionally, though I am not forum staff, as Discord Staff I would like to say that 'harassment' begins and ends in my opinion when someone voices that their feelings have been hurt. Bringing in a nonsensical argumenet such as your washing machine example is, bluntly, ridiculous. The staff do have common sense. That common sense is also part of the reason we don't rely entirely on hard evidence for 100% of problems, as if someone were to say something in voice-chat that broke the rules for example, unless we were recording every word spoken, we couldn't lay that out for show.

I appreciate that you have been respectful in your replies, but again, please be patient while we move to create clear and accessible evidence for the warning that does not intrude on anyone's privacy unwillingly.

You have already made this clear to us, and we explained that it is far from the only piece of controversy he has said. It was just the first example we had on hand at the time of warning.

Thank you for expressing your feelings and we will take it into account. Please be patient.

Saizomaru , I have literally spoken with you several times myself alone about your behavior and conduct in the Discord, the most recent of which was even yesterday morning. That conversation ended with you saying you had no intention to be nicer to anyone, as everyone who had spoken out about you was just "playing the victim card" and that you believed were justified in your behavior because of some previous injustices you felt towards yourself - ironically playing the victim card.

If you can't conduct yourself on this board in a non-hostile manner like everyone else, you're going to only end up landing yourself in more trouble. I suggest taking a breather for a while and coming back with a cool head.

Sorry, but no. I myself was one of the people who felt regularly offended and hurt by the statements you were making in public about my characters and what I was doing with them. And I did talk to you about it, in general chat for everyone to see. I told you that I was feeling hurt by what you were saying and that it made it very difficult for me to motivate myself to RP on Nashua, a character I've been working hard on for over a year, and that I'd appreciate it if you could stop.

You replied, "I imagine that's how Thaw feels every day." And yet when insults of Thaw made by you yourself are brought into the equation, they are dismissed as two friends joking around. You cannot refute these statements by constantly saying "It was just that one time" every time another instance is brought up. Maple jumped the gun and both improperly announced and posted up your warning post without consulting the rest of us or gathering proper displays of your conduct. We're working on it. With how you've made myself and several others feel along with your utter dismissal of our feelings, your ban is justified and sticking.

I apologize to everyone else for how many unnecessary theatrics this charade has been causing.