Post by Vangreth on Jul 4, 2020 11:26:39 GMT -6
So, most of you probably saw what happened in the discord channel earlier about Minions and their bonuses. For those who weren't, I was confused by the fact that:
When your minion has twice your base PL, it gets 1.25 ratio on XP to PL but you get 0.75 ratio for yourself
While I am aware that some people based their build on having a minion carry them in battle (Carro as the prime example), I think this little mechanic feels backward.
For one, I think it should be the reverse! You should get 1.25 ration on XP to PL when your minion reaches twice your PL, and they should have a malus of 0,75. And perhaps give them a bonus of 1.25 when they are falling behind, that way it does push you to keep them somewhat near each other.
They are supposed to be minion after all, and minions are usually not suppose to be stronger than their masters (Think Zarbon/Dodoria for Frieza or Krillin to Goku) and, for me, are meant to deal with smaller threat while you engage the big battle yourself.
Now, I'm not saying 'minion main' build shouldn't be a thing, but I think they should not be encouraged that much. Having a permanent 1.25 ratio XP to PL is a huge advantage over everyone else. Especially when scaling it with LMB.
Have some numbers.
A regular player, to reach 200k, must go like so.
80k to reach 120k PL and the limit of current LMB
80k from 120k to 200k
For a total of 160k XP
Now, considering minions
They start at 5k for a price of 2.5k (Small bonus here as a start-up, but small enough to overlook)
Then, from 5k to 120k, you need 115k PL, translated with a 1.75 ratio in mind, boils up to 65,175 (We're already around 15k ahead of regular builds)
Then, from 120k to 200k, you need 80k, with 1.25 ratio, that's 64,000
So that's a total of 129,175, a little more than 30,000 XP less
Now, with that 30k, you can do so much to further dig that advantage! You get a Sacred Flute, Arm Blaster and Training Shell for 19k, which makes your minion, in my opinion, as strong as a regular player with the same Power Level; strong multiplicator with Sacred Flute and +33% power on an attack with Arm Blaster, and Super traits are really good by themselves!
And with that, you still have 11k to spare.
Now, I know most of you realize that having your minion as your main does leave your main body on the weak side... but that's barely an argument in my opinion.
First, your Minion can ALWAYS protect you, except if there are multiple opponents
Second, if there ARE multiple opponent, then you'd still be at a disadvantage if you were alone with your own power.
Third, if you invest in making your main about half as strong as your minion, then you can also use merging techniques, which allows your to overpower basically anyone, especially if using the SIG version of merging with your minion's MA3
And last but not least, this argument also works on reverse; your main power could be destroyed, but the main character can live.
Personally, I think Minion main such as Carro could have been dealt with by having the 'main' character being the Android and the ''Pilot'', Carro, being the actual roleplay character. ( I realize it feels like I'm using him as a target? I'm sorry, he's just the strongest example of Minion Main I can think of, please take no offense on it)
Minions could still be used as... well... minions to fight on multiple front, only the build where you keep a very weak character and use the forever 1.25 ratio to scale faster.
Minions main wouldn't be destroyed, but there would be a down side to using only a Minion to fight (This is DBZ after all).
TL:DR, Minion main are encouraged and have a fairly strong advantage over regular characters and I don't think it should be the case
When your minion has twice your base PL, it gets 1.25 ratio on XP to PL but you get 0.75 ratio for yourself
While I am aware that some people based their build on having a minion carry them in battle (Carro as the prime example), I think this little mechanic feels backward.
For one, I think it should be the reverse! You should get 1.25 ration on XP to PL when your minion reaches twice your PL, and they should have a malus of 0,75. And perhaps give them a bonus of 1.25 when they are falling behind, that way it does push you to keep them somewhat near each other.
They are supposed to be minion after all, and minions are usually not suppose to be stronger than their masters (Think Zarbon/Dodoria for Frieza or Krillin to Goku) and, for me, are meant to deal with smaller threat while you engage the big battle yourself.
Now, I'm not saying 'minion main' build shouldn't be a thing, but I think they should not be encouraged that much. Having a permanent 1.25 ratio XP to PL is a huge advantage over everyone else. Especially when scaling it with LMB.
Have some numbers.
A regular player, to reach 200k, must go like so.
80k to reach 120k PL and the limit of current LMB
80k from 120k to 200k
For a total of 160k XP
Now, considering minions
They start at 5k for a price of 2.5k (Small bonus here as a start-up, but small enough to overlook)
Then, from 5k to 120k, you need 115k PL, translated with a 1.75 ratio in mind, boils up to 65,175 (We're already around 15k ahead of regular builds)
Then, from 120k to 200k, you need 80k, with 1.25 ratio, that's 64,000
So that's a total of 129,175, a little more than 30,000 XP less
Now, with that 30k, you can do so much to further dig that advantage! You get a Sacred Flute, Arm Blaster and Training Shell for 19k, which makes your minion, in my opinion, as strong as a regular player with the same Power Level; strong multiplicator with Sacred Flute and +33% power on an attack with Arm Blaster, and Super traits are really good by themselves!
And with that, you still have 11k to spare.
Now, I know most of you realize that having your minion as your main does leave your main body on the weak side... but that's barely an argument in my opinion.
First, your Minion can ALWAYS protect you, except if there are multiple opponents
Second, if there ARE multiple opponent, then you'd still be at a disadvantage if you were alone with your own power.
Third, if you invest in making your main about half as strong as your minion, then you can also use merging techniques, which allows your to overpower basically anyone, especially if using the SIG version of merging with your minion's MA3
And last but not least, this argument also works on reverse; your main power could be destroyed, but the main character can live.
Personally, I think Minion main such as Carro could have been dealt with by having the 'main' character being the Android and the ''Pilot'', Carro, being the actual roleplay character. ( I realize it feels like I'm using him as a target? I'm sorry, he's just the strongest example of Minion Main I can think of, please take no offense on it)
Minions could still be used as... well... minions to fight on multiple front, only the build where you keep a very weak character and use the forever 1.25 ratio to scale faster.
Minions main wouldn't be destroyed, but there would be a down side to using only a Minion to fight (This is DBZ after all).
TL:DR, Minion main are encouraged and have a fairly strong advantage over regular characters and I don't think it should be the case
